Prolobe Online Absolute Pitch Ear Training

I am new to this forum, so i'll say hi all first of all.

I was looking into perfect pitch and stumbled across a youtube video of a guy demonstrating his Perfect Pitch. A piece of music was playing on the TV and he played along with it,playing it exactly.

My question is what does it take to develop perfect pitch to this level,and can people who aerent born with develop it to this level.

starting from no music background, probably 7 or so years.

If you can already play an instrument fairly well, maybe a year or two years.

crazy, but realistic.

Here is a pirated version of Earope, an ear training resource which includes melodic dictation at adjustable levels of difficulty. For once, this is not a trojan joke. I tried it, and it works, for those wishing to apply in realtime that which is taught here for improving things such as lead work and transcription on the fly. I hope you like it. Such things are rare.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3583735/Earope.Advanced.Ear.Training.v1.65-AiR

I have had no formal RP training or studied to play by ear relatively.

Yet, with the use of my tonal memory (which I developed to a certain extent using Melody Triggers) I am now able to ad-lib and play along with music.

I do seem to be affected by certain keys, as my speed of playing differs per song. Which gives me the idea that I do use RP to some extent.

My motivation is to play my instrument daily, not only out pure pleasure but because of the idea that playing will make me better over time since I have actually played only sporadically.


Take care,
Elcon

don't delude yourself. Study RP.

I looked into the program. Does it have any extra features that "Ear Trainer Pro" does not have. Perfhaps something relating to absolute pitch?

or is this program about RP and perhaps ear trainer pro is a better alternative?

Co!in...

The truth is that they all suck. Why? Not only because they are overpriced and clumsy, but also because they are based on the faulty premise that relative pitch is not pitch recognition when on the contrary that is the first and perhaps even the ONLY thing it is -- I implore you to look into Bruce Arnold's materials before you waste any more of your precious money and time on any of those awful programs (Ear Master Pro, Earope, Auralia, Practica Musica and so on). I believe that the title of this thread is 'When Perfect Pitch Becomes Practical', and I can most assuredly tell you that it begins to become practical when your relative pitch becomes practical (in one timbre at a time), but your relative pitch won't become practical so long as you waste your time doing the stupid, useless drills found in Earope or Ear Master Pro. Now, that's not to say that all the drills are useless, but for the most part a more productive use of your time can be found elsewhere. I'd be happy to point you in the right direction if you're interested, just be sure to let me know.

Lol Nik,

you are far too intense for my life lmao.
but I enjoy that, and I'm defanately interested.

You do have the missconception that I'm waisting my money on these programs. i'm not that foolish. I just happen to have the program for school.
I agree that it is absolutely impractical which is why I'm seeking other methods. but of course the tests given to us in our ear training class are equally impractical.

My goal is to some day eventually be able to hear a peice of music and then play it KNOWING I will be correct the first time.
If you can lead me in that direction then I hope you have Skype.

Skype: Coloud
Facebook: c_man03@hotmail

Hi,

Which Bruce Arnold's book would you recommend to start with?

I'm currently training my relative pitch by doing interval drills and I would like to try a different method (and I know that functional ear training is working fine for some people)

Regards,
Luis

One of the lovely things about Bruce Arnold's materials (his CDs, at least) is that they're portable, which means that you don't have to stay glued to a computer for hours on end in order to train your ear.

Though I do have a few misgivings here and there, the reason why I am eager to recommend Bruce Arnold's materials over others is that he is so careful at the outset to educate the student as to what good relative pitch really is, and in the process of doing so confines it exclusively to the domain of pitch recognition. Not absolute pitch recognition, mind you, but rather what might be best termed contextual pitch recognition, where each pitch takes on a particular harmonic value (designated by scale degree numbers) depending upon the key that has been established. Now because this sort of relative pitch (the only true sort of relative pitch there is, mind you) allows for very precise and speedy calculations as to the EXACT placement of pitches (and eventually the harmonic placement of intervals and chords), it blows the interval recognition parlor trick out of the water. To give you an example, perhaps in school you were asked to become familiar with the sound of a major third. Now the trouble here is that there are a great many possible major thirds to be encountered in even the most basic of music, so upon encountering one of these major thirds, you must -- that is if your knowledge is to be of any practical use whatsoever -- somehow determine which major third it is. For instance, in any major key there are three diatonic major thirds, but if one goes so far as to include the other five non-diatonic scale degrees + modulations, (as almost all good music does -- that's why it's so good) then there are a total of twelve possible major thirds. So tell me -- which major third is it? Ah, but by the time this has been determined in what is at least a two-step process, the music will have passed you by. However, those properly trained are able to automatically calculate in a rapid one-step process the pitches/scale-degrees that comprise for instance a major third, and in doing so immediately identify exactly what sort of major third it is. The same goes for chords as well -- indeed it is always a one-step process no matter how many pitches the chord is comprised of. The untrained ear might hear major and minor chords (or even seventh chords and what not) scattered throughout a piece of music, but once again such knowledge is useless unless one is also able to simultaneously discern the placement of those chords as well, and that's what the contextual method teaches you. Knowing you hear a major seventh chord is useless, but knowing that you hear a IV7 chord most certainly isn't. ( ... and even better is to identify its exact voicing as being scale degrees 3461, or EFAC in the key of C).

haha wow it seems in writing this I forgot to answer a few questions -- I'll have to do that tomorrow.

I'll have to check out the Bruce arnold. thanks for that

Yes the most effective method of listening to music (ESPECIALLY MODERN MUSIC) is to listen to the chord progression and then use scale degrees to tell give yourself the melodic information. Harmonies are probably the hardest part of music, but by studying chords (and I mean on an instrument, not on paper), you can start to recognize patterns. Start with major/minor - work up from there, partial chords like melodic thirds/sixths are popular (think iron maiden), etc.

please do... I'll be waiting...

Tinnitus,

Well given your advanced abilities I'm not quite sure just how much you'd gain in studying his materials, but then again I take it that even the most advanced students stand to benefit from his sight-singing method. Indeed, learning how to pre-hear scale-degrees/pitches in your mind BEFORE you sing or play them (the crux of his sight-singing method) is an invaluable skill to have, and will make your recognition abilities just that much better -- so yeah, I'd go with one of his books like Lines: Volume One or something. More important, however, is that you apply his method (or a slight variation of it as I do) to the music you're interested in (as opposed to Jazz). So far as his CDs are concerned though, you might be interested in Key Note Recognition, which will teach you how to detect any of the twelve major/minor tonal centers by ear after sounding a single pitch on your instrument -- a handy skill to have if you are into improvisation or work with a band (or both).

Coloud,

Is it true that you struggle with level two on Prolobe? Then go ahead and order Bruce Arnold's One Note Complete, which will train you how to instantly discern all twelve pitches/scale-degrees in the context of a key center. I also implore you to download Functional Ear Trainer (a free program), which is basically Bruce Arnold's One Note CD except you have the option of working in any of the twelve major/minor keys -- be sure to use a cadence.

Work towards reaching at least level nine in Prolobe, which in order to pass you must be able to competently identify random three note chords pretty much in the key of C major (the white keys). Initially this might seem daunting, but if you are careful to not only listen for the pitches but also sing the pitches upon hearing them (as I shall explain) then your progress will be rapid. Now, whether or not you are able to actually identify the pitches that you sing, this exercise (which works best when dealing with chords) will really open your ears as nothing else will:

confining yourself to the white keys (or better yet the Prolobe syllabus for course two), play a random two or three note chord on your piano/synthesizer (in this case CDF)

now (once again), whether or not you are able to identify the pitches/scale-degrees that comprise this particular chord, sing the bottom pitch.

then sound the chord again, listening for that bottom pitch (C)

then sound the chord again, listening for the middle pitch (D in this case). You very well might not be able to hear the middle pitch no matter how much you listen for it, so go ahead and listen to D removed from the other pitches before playing the cluster again.

rinse and repeat with the top tone, and then do the same with other intervals/chords. You can also sing single pitches upon hearing them, just be sure (especially with the singles because it is too easy to do otherwise) that your attention is completely on the pitches themselves and not on the various melodic/harmonic intervals they might form, lest you develop some sort of annoying habit that will be hard to undo. It's okay to be slightly mindful of what pitch was heard previously (oftentimes it's involuntary), just don't go so far as to consciously cultivate any sense of relationship between the pitches themselves. Learning intervals is useless and annoying at best, but if the habit really becomes ingrained it can actually interfere with your development so be careful. Besides, as your ear develops you will soon discover that (given the key) not every interval of a particular sort sounds the same. For instance, in any major key the three diatonic major thirds (or CE, FA, and GB in C major) take on very different roles and so for that reason sound very different from one another -- CE, in the most basic of harmony, could for instance comprise either a I or vi chord, FA a IV or ii chord, and GB a V/V7 or iii chord.

Don't use any tricks like melody triggers or other crutches to identify the tones, just go with your gut. Now, that's not to say that using melody triggers don't make for great ear training (they really do), but for now a more productive use of your time would be to develop your relative pitch. After you sufficiently develop your relative pitch, learning PP using MTs will be a great deal easier.

Oh yeah, and this:

http://www.miles.be/art_singer.html

By the way, Bruce Arnold studied under Charlie Banacos.

Hey Nik, I wanted to finish up my semester before I came back here. to really apply myself.

So I have been doing the random chord excersize for sometime now. months before you mentioned it. Unfortunately Melody triggers are pretty much th eonly way I remember different notes. I'd like to get out out that habbit. I find that it's very slow. that's what're contributing to my failure in level two.

in fact I very rarely get the answer incorrect it just takes me to long so I never finsih the test in the alloted time.

bruce arnolds one note trainer can i find the same excersize in Ear Trainer Pro? with the cadences you speak of, caused I already have that program.

Well, if you're a MT junkie then you can always change them up so that they teach you how to hear scale-degrees instead of absolute pitches -- a few suggestions, if I may (... using C major as an example):

for the tonic, the opening of Mozart's famous C major sonata

for the third, the adagio of said Mozart sonata transposed from G major to C major (... since it begins on the third scale-degree)

for the fifth scale-degree, you have a number of options here:

Minuet in G major by Bach

Toccata and Fugue in D minor, also by Bach

opening of Beethoven's Fifth

look around, and you'll be able to find melodies that correspond to at least the seven diatonic scale-degrees.

What do you think?

to be honest I'd rather not use MT it's just a habit.

but, I want to know if I can use eartrainer pro for the excersizes you suggested, and if so how do i go about it

the one involving cadences I'm not quite sure exactly what to practice.

I failed to mention I have a Mac... if there any program... like FET for MAC? :/

Glad you mentioned you use a Mac (... hence your insistence on using Ear Master for want of a better program). I would get two things:

go to muse-eek.com and download 'One Note Complete' (make sure it comes with PDF explaining what to do).

buy 'Audiation Assistant 2.0' for Mac -- that's the best ear training software you'll find.

I learned it when 18. 20 sufficiently when i pwned this program.

k I got my PC back. I've been using F.E.T. for a couple weeks now doing at least 200 correct questions day. I can now tell all the scale degrees in a Major cadence 90%+ of 200 questions...

Now what do you recommend. I've done I think all the things you've previously mentioned about random white keys because I started with David L. Burdge's A.P.

Didn't complete it but I'm curious how to not use M.T.'s as well as get better at hearing these things absolutely as well as just some practical application of all these skills I'm learning. Geiz.

- Co!in

this was directed towards Nik,